An interview with Armen Bayandouryan, a member of the Georgian Parliament and Artistic Director of the Petros Adamyan National Theater in Tbilisi

-Mr. Bayandouryan, what are the most pressing problems facing the Georgian-Armenian community today?

-There are approximately 500,000 Armenians living in Georgia today. The most pressing problem is to see to it that these Armenians send their children to Armenian schools. Let me point out that we have nineteen state schools in Tbilisi with more than one thousand students each; all are Armenian. This will prove to be dangerous for the community tomorrow and the day after, for it signifies that Armenians aren’t attending Armenian schools but rather Russian ones. This begs the question, why don’t we send our children and grandchildren to Armenian schools. I think it stems from the fact that in the past Armenians sought employment in Russia and that we have always thought that our children will also be going to Russia to live and work. Today, the kids in all the Armenian schools operating in Tbilisi also master Russian and Georgian. In order that we maintain our art and literature in Georgia it is necessary that our children attend Armenian schools. If this doesn’t happen we could lose our theater and church. I frequently state that if our parents do not wish to send their kids to Armenian schools, they should at least send them to Georgian ones on order to learn the state language. Why should we be attending Russian schools? This is the biggest problem. This is especially perplexing since national minorities in Georgia today have been afforded all the necessary facilities. Whoever wants to go to school can do so. Armenians must send their children to Armenian schools. In this way we stay true to our roots. The more Armenian kids go to our schools, the greater the number of those speaking Armenian. This translates into more Armenian theater goers and those attending the Armenian Church, etc.

-In this context, the situation of Armenians in Tbilisi seems to differ from that of Javakhk. Everyone goes to Armenian school in Javakhk. They know Armenian but can’t speak Georgian. Thus they can’t get jobs within the government. What solution do you see regarding this?

-It’s an interesting question. All I’d say is that there isn’t one nation on earth where its citizens don’t speak its primary language. If they don’t speak Georgian in Javakhk today, it’s not their fault. The system has been lacking, incorrect. There is a program that will soon be introduced there in order that Javakhk Armenians learn Georgian.

-What program are you referring to?

-I and others have suggested that Georgian be taught in Armenian kindergartens. Today, a 90 year-old grandma who milks her cows and makes cheese can’t speak Georgian, but her grandchild or great-grandchild can. That’s why we have to start early, in the kindergarten. We should be establishing Armenian kindergartens with a Georgian orientation. All these issues will be resolved. Armenians complain that they aren’t given jobs. To get a job or position the applicant must speak the dominant language of the country. Today we have a deputy foreign minister, Mr. Nalbandov, who speaks perfect Georgian. Do you think you can get a position in the French government without having a mastery of French? Can one get a government job in Armenia without knowing Armenian? We need to be able to speak our mother tongue and simultaneously the state language. These are different things. Today, in Georgia, we have 160 Armenian state schools, a newspaper in Armenian, a national theater going back 153 years, the likes of which doesn’t exist outside Armenia. We have Armenian TV broadcasts and a working church.

-Some say that in Javakhk, Armenian should be granted the status of the 2nd official language or a regional one.  Other Javakhk Armenians are demanding that all local official business be conducted in Armenian. What’s your position?

-To establish a second official language in Javakhk would imply that Armenians are incompetent. We’d be doing ourselves a great disservice if we said that we Armenians cannot learn another language. This is my view. It would be like saying; we are citizens of Georgia but we aren’t capable of learning the language. Ridiculous, isn’t it? Today we can’t, but tomorrow we can.

-Mr. Bayandouryan, you have said that all is well in Javakhk, but there are activists and officials in Armenia who have been publicizing the problems in Javakhk and who have sounded the alarm regarding the anti-Armenian policies of the Georgian authorities; e.g. pressures brought to bear on Armenian social and political organizations. In your opinion, what’s behind such a widespread conception of Javakhk?

-There are people who simply never have seen all the good works that have been carried out for Javakhk. Was there electricity in Javakhk eight years ago? Did grandparents receive pensions? Were Javakhk communities supplied with natural gas?  Was there a road linking Akhalkalak and Tbilisi? That’s to say, development is certainly taking place. Who is claiming that everything is perfect? There are shortcomings not only in Javakhk but in Kutaisi and Kvemo-Karteli. These problems can be raised and I welcome such moves. However, when you fail to speak of the good that has been accomplished in the same breath; I find this unacceptable. I mean, no one is saying that all is rosy in Javakhk. But we don’t mention the electricity, gas and roads. Why is that? We don’t want to accept the fact that Saakashvili is the only Georgian president that frequently visits Javakhk. What president has visited Javakhk?  Zviad Gamsakhurdia and Shevardnadze never did. The nay-sayers don’t accept all this.

-How would you explain the recent rash of arrests of Javakhk-Armenian activists?

-No one is illegally arrested in Georgia; just as in Armenia. There is a justification one someone has been charged with a crime. Being Armenian has nothing to do with it. If you’ve committed a crime you go to jail. These people broke the law. It’s that simple. Have you been following the trial of Vahagn Chakhalyan? Everyone has protested that the case has been wrought with violations –   Georgia's human rights ombudsman, Sozar Subari, Chakhalyan’s defense team and outside observers. Then there’s the related case of the Georgian authorities not allowing aFrench-Armenian attorney to defend Chakhalyan. Why haven’t these issues been covered more extensively?

-Do you actually believe that Sozar Subari is some kind of saint?

-I’m not talking about whether he’s a saint or not but the fact that the Georgian ombudsman and his team have registered a number of legislative violations in the case. That’s Subari’s take on the matter. The law is grounded in a correct legal framework. It cannot be claimed that whatever Subari says is correct. That’s not how it is. I am convinced that no laws have been violated regarding those imprisoned in Georgia.

-Mr. Bayandouryan, have you looked into the matter why the Georgian authorities haven’t allowed RoA Deputy Shirak Torosyan and political analyst Igor Mouradyan from entering the country? In fact, they haven’t allowed Mr. Torosyan to visit his birthplace in Javakhk twice now. There’s also a rumor circulated that Georgian border posts have a list of some 15-20 young people whose entry into Georgia from Armenia is prohibited. What’s your reaction?

-We three Armenian deputies have discussed the matter and perhaps there is a problem with Deputy Torosyan. The problem is that we have certain individuals, maybe this doesn’t pertain to Mr. Torosyan, who are trying to have it both ways. We can’t burden the two countries like that. We are always looking for issues to exploit. As to why they won’t allow him in…that’s beyond my jurisdiction. You have a foreign ministry and diplomatic staff. They should be getting involved. I believe that the deputy should be allowed to visit his place of birth. But I can’t say what lies underneath. I am not aware of any list of names that you mentioned.

-As an Armenian member in the Georgian Parliament have you ever raised the issue of the status of the Armenian Church in Georgia or the return of the six Armenian churches? Presently, where do we stand in these issues?

-A law will soon be passed. We frequently talk about the Norashen Church. It goes without saying that many mistakes were made regarding the church. There have been those who have desecrated our holy sites. However we have a nation and a government who is speaking out on these matters and which stands against such inhuman acts. I believe that the heads of the two churches will resolve the matter jointly and that we should assist them in whatever manner they see fit. We will not allow anyone to desecrate our cemeteries. Here, I am not talking about a whole people at fault but certain individuals. In this context, Georgia’s president is aware of the problem and is taking action. Generally speaking, the new leadership in Georgia is contemporary in its thinking and this can only benefit not only the country as a whole but the national minorities in Georgia as well.

-Previously, you have listed the accomplishments of the Georgian government in Javakhk. In your opinion, what should be the position of Armenia vis-à-vis the Javakhk issue?

-Armenia, under the direction of the president, is conducting a very normal policy when it comes to Javakhk. Javakhk is part and parcel of Georgia and those intrigues that get bandied about are improper. What has taken place regarding Javakhk? Armenia is doing all it can to assist residents of Javakhk in terms of the propagating Armenian literature and the arts. Theater troupes, artists and writers from Armenia travel there often. But this isn’t the real problem. The real set of problems lies in the fact that there is a certain group of individuals that are not truly interested in the well-being of Javakhk but rather in making a name for themselves. They are the ones creating the problems. The issues facing Javakhk are ones being faced by Georgia as a whole. Georgia is a country in which democracy is still being established but already major steps have been taken down this road – we will be entering NATO and the European Union. In this respect, the issues faced by national minorities will be resolved as well.